Q. You have been involved with the IDI since its inception in 1991, and have generously supported IDI’s activity since. How did you become involved with the IDI, and, of all of the worthy causes one can support, how did you come to choose the IDI?
A. I'm a Jew. I'm concerned about the survival of Jews in this world. It is very important for me to see the State of Israel survive. I am concerned about the State of Israel surviving. There is such disparity of forces in this state: Orthodox, secular, Ashkenazi, Arab, Communist, right-wing… and everybody is working against everybody, and nobody is working towards the middle. There is no cohesive force here, and the government is weak.
It's not that the people are weak, because the people are brilliant Jews. The problem is that the system doesn't work. It's not a parliamentary system, it's not a presidential system; it's a system that grew out of necessity. It's as if you have a house and you add on a room, and you add on a room, and you add on a room. But no one pays attention to the plumbing. No one pays attention to the support - the cement base of the building. And, one day, what happens is you add on a room and the whole building collapses. You've got a problem here, and I recognize this. I'm not a parliamentarian. I don't really understand totally the parliamentary system, but I know that the government, based on what I observe, has so many weak points: many strong points, but so many weak points. And Israel is not in a position to have any weak points. Israel needs to be a strong, democratic place where Jews can live. It can't be mediocre. Mexico can be mediocre. Italy can have governments that can fall any day. Italy does, and Italy survives. Israel cannot survive if it has that kind of government. It needs a strong government that stands for something, that represents all the people. At the IDI I've found the people that can do it. I can't do it. All I can do is facilitate it; I can help support it.
Q. Dr. Arye Carmon is and has been the President of the IDI since its establishment. How would you describe your working relationship with him throughout the years?
A. Arye, and all the brilliant people that surround him, are the people that make a difference. They understand government, they understand law, they understand society. I'm an American retailer. I don't know any of this stuff; I don't have a clue about it. But he has surrounded himself with people who have been able to attract and discuss and have the respect of literally every party. The IDI is one of the few organizations in Israel that can speak to the right, the left, the middle, that can speak to every part of society, maybe the one organization that can help bring them all to one table. And that's what IDI does, bring everybody to a table to conduct dialogue. I'm not sure that there's any single institution in the United States that does that. And that is the whole purpose, bringing people to a table where they can sit and talk civilly, and come to a conclusion that's a peaceful conclusion, a conclusion that's not good for only one; that is good for all. That's what Israel needs, and that's why I support the IDI.
Q. The American Friends of the Israel Democracy Institute (AFIDI) Board members have recently begun to hold conferences in the US, the last of which was about Terror and Democracy. Of all of the IDI projects, Terror and Democracy seems to be a hot topic at the moment – perhaps because it does not deal with how we live, but if we will live. Would you care to comment about the importance of this project and elaborate on this recent development?
A. …I think that we have a situation in the world today that is frightening…
We have Islamic fundamentalists literally in every country in the world. If it's not frightening to every country, and I think it is not - I think these countries are thinking that maybe it will go away and are not dealing with it; they don't know how to deal with it. If they're democracies, its very difficult to deal with terrorists because no one has ever faced situations where people will strap bombs on themselves and kill themselves in order to kill fifteen to twenty people. There is no democracy in the world that knows how to better deal with this than Israel.
We in the United States are naïve, very naïve, even after 9-11. We are naïve, we don't profile, we can't wire tap… we're afraid to do anything because it's civil rights. Listen, when you're dealing with another state, you can have those kinds of rules involved. When you're dealing with a terrorist who uses your laws against you - you're in deep trouble. Terror is something I am concerned about for the United States. I am concerned about for the UK; Germany has a problem. Belgium has a problem, the Netherlands has a problem, India has a problem, Russia has a problem; everyone shares this problem.
How do you deal with democracy and terrorism? IDI - with the people here who have the knowledge. You're living it; you live it every day, this is part of your fabric - you've been living in this terror for thirty-five years, certainly within the last ten years. IDI can help other societies develop some kind of answer for it, and that's why this is something that's needed in the world. Dialogue is needed. We don’t need the IDI to come and tell us what to do; we need the IDI to be part of a dialogue because we need to have lots of humanitarians involved, we need to have lots of politicians involved, we need to have lots of think tanks involved. But, when you have these kinds of conversations, you need the experts. Who could be better than someone who is living it every day, to solve most of these problems? And that’s the role that IDI should have, as a participant in these kinds of conversations.
Q. This past Tuesday, you were present at the special winter session of IDI’s Annual Economic Forum, the Caesarea Forum, where discussion centered on the defense budget. What are your personal thoughts on this topic? Is this the way to advance issues in Israel, or is this the type of work that only the government should be doing?
A. The defense budget is an Israeli problem. I sat at the forum as an observer and was fascinated by the conversation. I think there were some brilliant people there, around the table. I was very impressed by the fact that it was remarkably serious, and that people there thought there was a need to make some dramatic changes in the defense budget. I think that it is great that the IDI, by bringing all those people together, something which the IDI does very well, throws ideas on the table. Hopefully some of them will stick; some of them won't be able to, because it's a political system, like every political system - you make suggestions; you can only affect what people will reasonably accept. I hope something good will come out of this situation,
I know for a fact that good has come out of previous Caesarea Forums. I sat next to the Finance Minister, and he told me that after the last Caesarea Forum where they discussed the poor and how to help poverty in Israel, because of that last Caesarea Forum last year, IDI's suggestions are in the budget this year. In other words, something good came out of it. These Caesarea forums are not just places where people get together and sit and talk and conduct dialogue; that’s basically what think tanks around the world do. They have dialogue, they produce a paper, and they go home... IDI doesn’t do that. IDI produces the dialog, the paper ensues that dialog, and hopefully something relevant comes out of it. The IDI is not just a think tank, it's a do-tank. Hopefully something good will come out of this year's economic forum - it doesn’t have to be 100%; it can still be 20% and still be very effective.
Q. Do you perceive the IDI as a body functioning only for the State of Israel, or does it also have implications for the Jewish people at large?
A. A strong Israel is important for all Jews in the world. We Jews of the United States have the freedoms that we have and have the respect that we have, because the Jews of Israel, finally, after centuries, stood up and said never again. They fought and they showed that they are willing to fight for what they believe in. This gave a great deal of strength to Jews all over the world. Jews, suddenly, from hiding and being afraid because of what happened in Israel, are demanding their rights. What happens in the State of Israel is going to affect every Jew in the world. What happens here is so critically important. A strong Israel will make a strong Jewish people.
Q. In the past few days on your visit to Israel you have seen many different sides of Israeli society. On Tuesday, as we mentioned, you were present at the Caesarea Forum, where you sat with Israel’s leading economists and politicians who spoke about the defense budget. Yesterday you visited a school in the Arab village of Tamra in the North, one of the schools in which IDI’s Educational project is being implemented, and spoke to Israeli Arabs. Of these and other areas in which the IDI is heavily involved, culminating into this morning’s meeting with a haredi Rabbi, what part of your visit was most compelling to you, personally? And, are you more optimistic or pessimistic than when you came?
A. In the last three days we met with Israeli-Arabs, we met with Haredim, we met with the National Party, we met with the ultra left wing, and with reform Rabbis. In a very short period of time we met with people that I doubt two percent of Israeli society ever met with. I doubt that people have gone to a haredi house and sat to talk with a rabbi. I doubt that even a few Israelis would go into an Israeli-Arab village and sit with them and have lunch with them and talk to them one-on-one, and listen to what they have to say. I would like to take every Israeli citizen through what we went through. I would want each one of them to understand that if you're unhappy, you should know that there are a lot of other people that are also unhappy. It's more than an educational process, it's understanding. Everybody thinks that their problem is the only problem in the world, and that's not true.
You have Russian Jews, you have Ashkenazi, Sephardic… you have 300,000 people that don’t have citizenship. There are so many desperate people here and nobody understands all of it. I, and the people that were with us, in a very short period of time, saw all this and we listened to them; we sat and talked to them. They're human beings, that all desire one thing; they want to live in peace. They want to feed their families, they want to provide an education for their children, they want to have a roof over their heads, and they want to be economically viable. They all have the same desires. And there's nobody that really tries to put it all together. I think that the IDI is trying to do this by a constitution by consensus. It's the first step in a process. I don't believe this is going to solve the problems of the world; it is not going to solve the problems in Israel - absolutely not. But, it is the first step, an important step, because once you take the first step, then you can take the second one. It's like building a house - if you don't have a good foundation, then you can't build the house. To me, constitution by consensus represents the base of the house. There's so much more to do, and it's not going to solve all problems, but it's certainly the beginning of a dialogue. The fact that they had people from all these groups sitting together in one room - the orthodox were sitting next to secular; they didn't kill each other… The liberal was sitting next to the right-wing; they didn't kill each other, they talked to each other like human beings. This is a major, major issue here. And IDI brought them all together. To me, that’s a mitzvah, and so the George Shultz Roundtable that's downstairs here is a place in which miracles are performed.
When I visit Israel and when I see what has been accomplished by the IDI, they're like climbing up the mountain, and this mountain is very, very high, but for the first time, I see progress being made. People are really talking to us about the fact that there's going to be a constitution. I never heard that before. The Israeli Arabs said, "We want to be included, we want to get this out of the constitution; they're already talking about it; it’s a hot topic. Is the Constitution the only answer? Of course not. But it's a major, major step. If that's all the IDI does, then this will be one of the great lessons in the State of Israel that this can happen. I don't think we appreciate the quality of the people who work at the IDI, how devoted they are, how they're giving their lives. Most of these people can probably make more money in other places. They are literally in the situation where they can save the State of Israel, and I just want to compliment them as much as I can.
Q. The Israel Democracy Institute, IDI, is a household name in Israel. Our Hebrew website is visited by approximately 2,000 unique users on a daily basis. Naturally, we are not investing enough in promoting ourselves abroad. How can we spread the word about the IDI in America, and other parts of the world?
A. How can we spread the word about IDI? Well, we always wanted to sit in the background and help the Knesset help itself. In other words, we basically have submerged ourselves and put ourselves in the background. It's the courageous people in the Knesset and in the government that listen to IDI, the ones who make the decisions who should get the credit. The fact that we help them in making these decisions is one thing, but they're the courageous ones. They're the ones saying "The system is broken, I'm going to fix it, I'm going to stand up, and I'm gonna do it. So IDI has therefore never really gotten the credit; we say, "We're not here to change the law, we're here to give the facts to the Knesset who is going to do the work. It's very difficult for people to understand that, but without IDI, most of these things would not happen. And if you go to members of the Knesset, they'll tell you the same thing. But we don't want the credit. If there's going to be a constitution, it's going to be passed by a majority of the members of the Knesset, and they deserve all the credit. We get the satisfaction of knowing we've helped this process.
This interview was conducted on February 16th, 2007, by IDI's English Website Editor, Naomi Shmueli David.
Mr. Marcus was interviewed as part of the American Friends of IDI (AFIDI) trip to Israel.
Click here to read more about the AFIDI visit.